Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/28/1997 08:04 AM House CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
               HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS                            
                        STANDING COMMITTEE                                     
                          April 28, 1997                                       
                             8:04 a.m.                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Ivan Ivan, Chairman                                            
 Representative Scott Ogan                                                     
 Representative Joe Ryan                                                       
 Representative Jerry Sanders                                                  
 Representative Al Kookesh                                                     
 Representative Reggie Joule                                                   
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Fred Dyson                                                     
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 162                                                            
 "An Act relating to the sale or purchase of handicrafts on certain            
 premises; and providing for an effective date."                               
                                                                               
      - MOVED CSHB 162(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 38                                                           
 "An Act relating to Statehood Act land selection conveyances to               
 boroughs and unified municipalities."                                         
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 9                                                             
 "An Act relating to municipal capital project matching grants for             
 a municipality organized under federal law as an Indian reserve;              
 and providing for an effective date."                                         
                                                                               
      - MOVED SB 9 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL: HB 162                                                                  
 SHORT TITLE: BAN CRAFT BUYING ON LIQUOR PREMISES                              
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) NICHOLIA                                        
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG         ACTION                                           
 02/27/97       509    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/27/97       509    (H)   CRA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                           
 04/23/97              (H)   CRA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 04/28/97              (H)   CRA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 BILL: HB 38                                                                   
 SHORT TITLE: CONVEYANCE OF LAND SELECTIONS TO BOROUGHS                        
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BRICE                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG         ACTION                                           
 01/13/97        37    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        37    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        37    (H)   CRA, WTR, RESOURCES                               
 04/23/97              (H)   CRA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 04/23/97              (H)   MINUTES(CRA)                                      
 04/28/97              (H)   CRA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 BILL: SB 9                                                                    
 SHORT TITLE: CAP PROJ MATCHING GRANT FOR INDIAN RESERV                        
 SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) MACKIE                                                 
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG         ACTION                                           
 01/03/97        16    (S)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        16    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        16    (S)   CRA, STA, FIN                                     
 03/07/97              (S)   CRA AT  1:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                
 03/07/97              (S)   MINUTE(CRA)                                       
 03/10/97       652    (S)   CRA RPT  2DP 2NR                                  
 03/10/97       652    (S)   DP: MACKIE, PHILLIPS NR: DONLEY, WILKEN           
 03/10/97       652    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTES (ADM, DCRA)                     
 04/03/97              (S)   STA AT  3:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                    
 04/04/97       981    (S)   STA RPT  4DP                                      
 04/04/97       981    (S)   DP: GREEN, DUNCAN, MILLER, WARD                   
 04/04/97       981    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FNS (ADM, DCRA)                     
 04/18/97              (S)   FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                
 04/18/97      1274    (S)   FIN RPT  3DP 4NR                                  
 04/18/97      1274    (S)   DP: SHARP, PHILLIPS, ADAMS                        
 04/18/97      1274    (S)   NR: PEARCE, PARNELL, TORGERSON, DONLEY            
 04/18/97      1274    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FNS (ADM, DCRA)                     
 04/22/97              (S)   RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203                 
 04/22/97      1385    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  4/22/97                        
 04/22/97      1418    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                              
 04/22/97      1418    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT            
 04/22/97      1418    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  SB 9                         
 04/22/97      1419    (S)   PASSED Y19 N- A1                                  
 04/22/97      1419    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                 
 04/22/97      1433    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                
 04/23/97      1284    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/23/97      1284    (H)   CRA, FINANCE                                      
 04/28/97              (H)   CRA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 KATTARYNA BENNETT, Researcher                                                 
   to Representative Irene Nicholia                                            
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 409                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4527                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 162.                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE                                                      
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 426                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3466                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsored HB 38.                                         
                                                                               
 WELLS WILLIAMS, Planning Director                                             
 City and Borough of Sitka                                                     
 100 Lincoln Street                                                            
 Sitka, Alaska  99835                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 747-1824                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 38.                           
                                                                               
 BOB BRIGHT, Planning Director                                                 
 Ketchikan Gateway Borough                                                     
 344 Front Street                                                              
 Ketchikan, Alaska  99901                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 228-6610                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 38.                           
                                                                               
 JANE ANVIK, Director                                                          
 Division of Land                                                              
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 3601 C Street, Suite 1122                                                     
 Anchorage, AK  99503-5947                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 269-8503                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 38.                                      
                                                                               
 DICK MYLIUS, Chief                                                            
 Resource Assessment and                                                       
   Development Section                                                         
 Division of Land                                                              
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 3601 "C" Street, Suite 1130                                                   
 Anchorage, Alaska  99503-5947                                                 
 Telephone:  (907) 269-8532                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to HB 38.                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR JERRY MACKIE                                                          
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 427                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4925                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of SB 9.                                         
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-20, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 015                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN IVAN called the House Community and Regional Affairs            
 Standing Committee meeting to order at 8:04 a.m.  Members present             
 at the call to order were Representatives Ogan, Sanders and Ryan.             
 Representatives Kookesh and Joule arrived at 8:06 a.m.                        
                                                                               
 HB 162 - BAN CRAFT BUYING ON LIQUOR PREMISES                                  
                                                                               
 Number 050                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN indicated that the committee would consider HB 162,             
 "An Act relating to the sale or purchase of authentic Native                  
 handicrafts on certain licensed premises; and providing for an                
 effective date," sponsored by Representative Nicholia.  He                    
 explained that this legislation was assigned to a subcommittee                
 chaired by Representative Jerry Sanders.  He referred to a proposed           
 committee substitute labeled O-LS0434\E and said he would entertain           
 a motion to adopt the committee substitute for the purpose of                 
 discussion.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 114                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS moved to adopt the committee                     
 substitute as noted.  Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.                
                                                                               
 Number 144                                                                    
                                                                               
 KATTARYNA BENNETT, Researcher to Representative Irene Nicholia,               
 Alaska State Legislature, came forward to testify on HB 162.  In              
 response to requests from the committee members and the                       
 subcommittee, five changes were made to the bill.  In Section 1, a            
 restriction was added on sale, purchase, or offer to sell or                  
 purchase handicrafts in liquor stores, as well as taverns or bars.            
 This was also a request made by Doug Griffin of the Alcohol                   
 Beverage Control (ABC) Board.  The second change was the addition             
 of language to restrict other handicrafts, as well as Native                  
 handicrafts.  Also included was a definition of other handicrafts.            
 She encouraged the members of the committee to review the                     
 definition to ensure it is acceptable.                                        
                                                                               
 MS. BENNETT continued that the third change was the addition of               
 language to clarify special events, such as Fur Rendezvous or other           
 similar activities, that may be unintentionally affected by this              
 legislation.  As discussed, a lot of craft selling goes on at these           
 events which is a big part of these functions.  Fourth, they                  
 removed the language that exempted arenas or convention centers               
 that were owned by the state or a political subdivision of the                
 state.  Finally, at the request of Legislative Legal the word                 
 "knowingly" was added to clarify that a bar owner or employee, who            
 is not directly involved in a transaction, will not be held liable            
 for actions beyond the realm of his/her knowledge.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN stated that the bill has been improved,             
 but he still has a few problems with the fact that this was an                
 unenforceable law.  He noted that it's illegal to sell drugs and              
 various other sundry items that routinely are sold in bars.  He               
 said he understands the objectives of this legislation and thinks             
 it is a laudable goal.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 398                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN stated that he still had a problem with               
 making the person who owns an establishment responsible.  He said             
 he doesn't know that anyone invites an individual into an                     
 establishment to sell anything.                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked about a person who owns an establishment            
 and someone comes in to sell something, that person would be guilty           
 and they may have a license sanctioned or receive a fine of up to             
 $2,000.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 488                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BENNETT responded that this does not happen unless a bar owner            
 or employee is directly involved in the sale or transaction.  It              
 would be a person who is the purchaser, seller or they are the                
 person who facilitates the buying or selling.  The bar owner or               
 employee would not be liable if they weren't directly involved.               
 Ms. Bennett explained the word "knowingly" was added to further               
 clarify that they wouldn't be liable.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 601                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS moved and asked unanimous consent to move HB
 162 out of committee with individual recommendations and with the             
 accompanying fiscal notes.  Hearing no objection, HB 162 was moved            
 out of the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee.                    
                                                                               
 HB 38 - CONVEYANCE OF LAND SELECTIONS TO BOROUGHS                             
                                                                               
 Number 640                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN indicated that the committee would consider HB 38,              
 "An Act relating to Statehood Act land selection conveyances to               
 boroughs and unified municipalities."  He entertained a motion to             
 adopt a proposed committee substitute for HB 38, labeled O-                   
 LS0233\E.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 668                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AL KOOKESH made a motion to adopt the committee                
 substitute for the purpose of discussion.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 680                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE, sponsor of HB 38, came before the                   
 committee to testify.  He said everyone realizes state revenues are           
 decreasing and one of the few assets the state has that could help            
 municipalities address long term economic needs is land.  This is             
 one thing that the state is very rich in.  This legislation would             
 allow, in AS 29.65.010, municipalities to select up to an                     
 additional 50,000 acres of state land within their boundaries.  He            
 said he thinks it is important to look at alternative ways to                 
 increase the assets of municipalities, particularly since the state           
 is cutting back on programs such as revenue sharing and municipal             
 assistance.  Also, it was his opinion that municipalities tend to             
 have a better track record than the state in getting lands out to             
 the public for housing, resource development and various other                
 economic activities.  This is another reason why he introduced this           
 legislation.                                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE added that the original version of the bill              
 was written around some of the parameters which were included in              
 the university lands bill.  Through discussions with the Department           
 of Natural Resources (DNR) and Legislative Legal Services, it was             
 basically decided that a much easier, much quicker approach would             
 be to add a new section, which is Section 1 in the committee                  
 substitute, AS 29.65.035, to increase up to an additional 50,000              
 acres.  There are a few issues which the committee might want to              
 consider, particularly, on page 1, line 9, "January 1, 2012," which           
 leaves the opening for selection to 15 years.  He thought that                
 there were a few ways to look at this situation.  The DNR thinks              
 like it might cast a cloud on title and slow down economic                    
 development.  On the other hand, given the protections that are               
 currently found in AS 29.65, this shouldn't have that much of an              
 effect in his opinion.                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE was concerned about giving the municipalities            
 the time to get raise the money because basically they'll be paying           
 for the conveyance.  This would give them enough time to go through           
 an appropriate planning process to determine what state lands, if             
 any, they would like to add to their rolls.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 914                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked if this was in addition to the 10 percent           
 of the land.                                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded, "VUU (vacant unappropriated                   
 unreserved) land, yes."                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said, "Brand new land?"                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded, "Yes."                                        
                                                                               
 Number 929                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN noted that when he was on "the local assembly"            
 they were allotted 112,000 acres and they had gotten rid of 6,000             
 in 28 years.  They figured at that rate, it would be year 2300 by             
 the time they disposed of the land they presently possess.  They              
 resisted mightily and enough people got together and they forced an           
 auction of some 40 acre parcels, which will still take forever.  He           
 said it is his understanding is that this land grant entitlement              
 was originally set up for newly incorporated municipalities to sell           
 the land, get their money and start their government, but just                
 about every municipality that he's aware of has held onto the land.           
 He asked if there were any provisions in the bill which would force           
 them to put this land up for auction.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded, "Initially there has been                     
 provisions that would require the municipality, in the first bill,            
 in discussing with DNR -- and some of the comments I heard from               
 various municipalities there was some concerns raised, the concern            
 raised with DNR that once they conveyed the land, I had established           
 a time line that if that land had not been made available or put              
 into productivity in an economically productive manner at some                
 point in time in the future that it would revert back to the state.           
 DNR didn't want to go through the paperwork and the headache.  And            
 the municipalities were concerned that sometimes it takes a little            
 bit to get those lands put into process and moved through."  He               
 said that he would not be opposed to other suggestions about how              
 they can ensure that this land would be put into productive use as            
 soon as possible.  Municipalities do better, albeit maybe not as              
 good as they should, but they do better than the state.                       
                                                                               
 Number 1088                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN stated that he liked the idea in the original             
 version of the bill regarding a time line.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded that this would require establishing           
 a procedure by which that land would revert back to the state.                
 This will probably add additional administrative costs.  He                   
 suggested that maybe as part of this reverting of lands back to the           
 state, that the municipalities would have to bear the burden of               
 this cost, as well as the conveyance.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1135                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN added that any land that's abandoned                      
 automatically reverted to the government through the process of               
 condemnation.  Perhaps this would be a smooth way to take care of             
 this situation.  He also wondered who would be entitled to this               
 land, as far as organized municipalities.  He said he doesn't think           
 that Anchorage, as a municipality, had any available lands to                 
 acquire.  He wondered if there would be some entities who might be            
 winners and losers because there's no room to expand.                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that this was a very good question.  He           
 said, "From my point of view, if the state has land in these                  
 municipalities maybe we need to look at getting rid of it, if the             
 state does not have land in those municipalities or does not have             
 50,000 acres then basically there would be no benefits to that                
 municipality."                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1215                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN noted that he was not familiar with what would happen           
 to the conveyance procedure if this bill was approved and the                 
 borough decided to collect an additional 50,000 acres.  He said he            
 wonders if these selections are undertaken on a contiguous basis,             
 or could you make a selection way out in the country somewhere.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded that this question related to an               
 interesting conversation he had with Legislative Legal Services.              
 He asked, "What if the municipality of Anchorage didn't have any              
 state land and wanted some in the Fairbanks North Star Borough?               
 Would this land become part of the municipality of Anchorage?"  He            
 had hoped to side-step this whole situation, but stated that                  
 provisions could be made within the bill to allow a municipality to           
 select land outside of its boundaries.  He said that would not                
 necessarily give that municipality governmental powers over this              
 land.  The land would be a commodity just like a truck owned by the           
 municipality.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1326                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked if this bill would give an opportunity to           
 the North Slope Borough to select Prudhoe Bay.                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded that Prudhoe Bay would have to be a            
 vacant, unallocated, unreserved lot.  The definition of VUU is                
 within AS 29.65.130 which defines that land that land has not been            
 set aside for resource development.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1397                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN noted that the city of Palmer didn't receive              
 any additional land because there was no state land within this               
 area.  He was concerned about municipalities that could choose                
 lands not adjacent to their municipality.  He requested that                  
 Representative Brice address this issue.                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that the lands they were referring to             
 are vacant, unappropriated, and unreserved.  The definition of this           
 designation is Sec. 29.65.130.(10) and he read it for the committee           
 as follows:                                                                   
                                                                               
 "(10) vacant, unappropriated, unreserved land" means general grant            
 land as defined in (3) of this section, excluding minerals as                 
 required by section 6(i) of the Alaska Statehood Act, that                    
 (A) has not been set aside by statute for one or more particular              
 uses or purposes; (B) has not been approved for patent to a                   
 municipality under this chapter or former AS 29.18.190 and                    
 29.18.200; (C) is unclassified or, if classified under AS                     
 38.05.300, is classified for agricultural, grazing, material,                 
 public recreation, or settlement purposes, or is classified in                
 accordance with an agreement between a municipality and the state             
 providing for state management of land of the municipality; or                
 (D) was classified no earlier than September 1, 1983, as resource             
 management and is still classified as resource management under AS            
 38.05.300. (Section 17 ch. 74 SLA 1985; am Section 9 ch 34 SLA                
 1987)."                                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE offered that they could expand this definition           
 in the title of the bill.  He said he was lead to believe that                
 those issues regarding resource development lands were set aside.             
                                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1575                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said, "Having not read 29.65.130 - and just               
 briefly heard it, what about the possibility of excluding real                
 developments, you know, like pipelines and a mining, the assets               
 that a mine has, the buildings, equipment, things like that."                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated, "I see what you're getting at and,               
 quite frankly, that that is my purpose as well.  It's hard to build           
 a subdivision on a mine."  He added that basically this legislation           
 allows land to be circulated so municipalities can transfer it to             
 people.  He noted that he would be very amenable to something along           
 these lines.  He stated that most of these issues have been                   
 addressed by putting the program in AS 29.65.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1680                                                                   
                                                                               
 WELLS WILLIAMS, Planning Director, City and Borough of Sitka,                 
 testified via teleconference from Sitka on HB 38.  He stated that             
 he's the defacto land manager for the City and Borough of Sitka.              
 The City and Borough of Sitka is thoroughly supportive of HB 38.              
 This legislation would do a number of things for Sitka which are              
 consistent with the current tone of the legislative session.  The             
 city and borough operates an aggressive land management program.              
 They acquire property and sell it for development for the express             
 purpose of encouraging the private sector to develop the property.            
 The proceeds of these sales go into the city and borough's                    
 permanent fund and directly enables them to keep their property               
 taxes lower.  There are pieces of property that the city and                  
 borough would plan to select from the state of Alaska if this                 
 legislation passes.  He said they see these lands as having private           
 development potential which would allow them, through the                     
 development of this land probably 10 to 20 years out, to maintain             
 stable property taxes in the face of declining revenues from the              
 state of Alaska.                                                              
                                                                               
 MR. WILLIAMS stated that the city and borough worked very closely             
 with the Division of Lands in the Department of Natural Resources.            
 They are incredibly grateful to Andy Pekovich and his staff in the            
 DNR Southeast regional office for helping them go through this                
 selection process.  As they've gone through this process, they've             
 been one of the leaders in paying some of the processing costs for            
 DNR to allow them to use their resources elsewhere.  They are                 
 perfectly happy to pay any of the processing costs for any lands              
 selected under this legislation.  He said the city and borough sees           
 this program as helping to keep low property tax and to compensate            
 for lost state revenues.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1829                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked how Sitka's permanent fund is set up.               
                                                                               
 MR. WILLIAMS responded that Sitka has a multi-million dollar                  
 permanent fund.  The bulk of the investments are currently in                 
 bonds.  Two years ago, the assembly allowed the municipality to               
 invest up to 20 percent of this permanent fund in equities.  The              
 earnings of this permanent fund go directly to keeping property               
 taxes low.  The earnings of the permanent fund allow them to                  
 effectively keep their millage rate two mills lower than they                 
 ordinarily would have.  The entire earnings on an annual basis go             
 into the general fund.  Any access to the principal of this fund              
 would require a vote of the people as part of their municipal                 
 charter.  The sale of land over the last few years has resulted in            
 $2 million additional dollars being put into the fund.  The                   
 interest and earnings off of this has allowed them to add more tax            
 relief.  He noted the only monies that can be accessed without a              
 vote of the people is the earnings.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1947                                                                   
                                                                               
 BOB BRIGHT, Planning Director, Ketchikan Gateway Borough, testified           
 via teleconference from Ketchikan on HB 38.  He echoed Mr.                    
 Williams' comments.  He stated that when the legislation was                  
 proposed it included only Section 6(b) lands.  After reviewing the            
 committee substitute, it looks as though it does include also 6(a)            
 lands which would include lands in Southeast Alaska.  He informed             
 the committee that Ketchikan also has an aggressive lands program             
 to turn borough lands into private lands.  They have a land trust             
 fund in which the principal is preserved.  The interest is spent to           
 improve the borough lands with infrastructure and to help get this            
 borough property into private hands.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 2007                                                                   
                                                                               
 JANE ANVIK, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural                 
 Resources, testified via teleconference from Anchorage on HB 38.              
 The Administration is supportive of the concept of increasing                 
 distribution of state lands to municipalities.  She indicted she              
 wasn't sure she had the most recent version of the bill.  Ms. Anvik           
 said she has Version A, which does not incorporate Title 29 as the            
 methodology of ensuring the entitlement, but if this is what the              
 change involves, they'd be willing to work with the sponsor and               
 committee to ensure that additional lands would be made available             
 to municipalities if they used the regular program under Section              
 29.65.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK made one cautionary note for consideration by the                   
 committee in that the division has a great deal of land currently             
 owed to municipal governments.  They are working steadfastly on               
 trying to provide the first entitlements to cities and boroughs               
 across the state.  She said the division currently thinks that they           
 should fulfill their existing obligations to municipalities before            
 they process additional requests from boroughs that have already              
 received their entitlements.  With this cautionary note, they are             
 supportive of the utilization of Title 29.65 as the methodology               
 which would allow them to use 6(a) and 6(b) lands within the                  
 existing time frames that are set out in 29.65.                               
                                                                               
 Number 2102                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN requested a status report on the current obligations            
 of conveyances that haven't been met.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what the aggregate of all the lands was             
 assuming this legislation would become law with 50,000 acres per              
 borough.  He asked how much land would be given away.                         
                                                                               
 Number 2130                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK responded there would be an additional 800,000 acres                
 available.  The original entitlement for boroughs is 1.3 million              
 acres.                                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN questioned how much of the 1.3 million acres              
 has been conveyed.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 2153                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK stated that she could answer the question backwards by              
 stating that they still owe 600,000 acres.  They have distributed             
 700,000 and owe 600,000.                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if there was some characterization of the           
 type of municipality that hasn't picked their land.                           
                                                                               
 Number 2160                                                                   
                                                                               
 DICK MYLIUS, Chief, Resource Assessment and Development Section,              
 Division of Land, Department of Natural Resources, testified via              
 teleconference from Anchorage on HB 38.  He responded that                    
 specifically the boroughs they owe a lot of land to Lake and                  
 Peninsula Borough, Northwest Arctic Borough, Denali Borough,                  
 Aleutians East Borough, the North Slope Borough and the Kenai                 
 Peninsula Borough.  He summed up by stating that it's mostly the              
 new boroughs that haven't received a lot of their lands.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked what amount of land has been sold or                
 transferred by the state to the various programs enacted over the             
 years, such as the homestead, open entry, recreation, mining                  
 claims, et cetera.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 2252                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK responded that there are 700,000 acres that have gone out           
 to municipal governments.  One million acres went to the mental               
 health settlement.  Lands that have been conveyed to the university           
 and other settlements total 880,000 acres.  Land for private,                 
 residential or agricultural uses such as open entry, homestead, et            
 cetera, is another 700,000.  She would provide the committee with             
 lists that outline the information.  As a caveat, while they're               
 owed 105 million acres from the federal government, they have only            
 actually received patent to 40 million acres so far.  They are                
 still in the process of negotiating with the federal government.              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred to the 700,000 figure and asked if               
 that is land that has actually been conveyed or is it land that has           
 just been applied for or has the title actually passed to                     
 individuals.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2310                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK responded that this is land that's actually been                    
 conveyed.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked if there has ever been a situation where            
 there is a borough, and within the borough there's a municipality             
 that makes a claim and both entities compete for the claim.                   
                                                                               
 Number 2338                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK responded that occasionally a situation happens where               
 there is a borough that is in competition with a city over the same           
 piece of land.  The city would have first rights over the borough             
 in this situation.                                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN stated that he didn't know if the following               
 would apply, but under AS 25.65.080 they talk about payment for               
 land deficiency.  Under this section, there is a period of time for           
 selection and after July 1, 1980, the amount of land selected by              
 the municipality that's physically suitable for residential,                  
 commercial and industrial purposes amounts to less than one-third,            
 per capita.  For those purposes an unselected, remaining                      
 entitlement shall, for the purposes of deficiency payment under               
 this subsection, be considered land physically suitable for this at           
 $1,000 an acre if they can't get it.  He said if they open up the             
 new program, would it come under the statute for places like                  
 Anchorage where there's no land to select because it's not within             
 their boroughs.  Could they come back to the state and say, "Well             
 you guys didn't give us any land, so give us $5 million."  He asked           
 if they would they be encumbered by this.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2488                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded that in discussing this very issue             
 with Legislative Legal Services, they assured him that this would             
 not come under the land deficiency statutes.                                  
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK stated that there were several communities for whom                 
 50,000 acres is not possible since they don't own 50,000 within               
 their boundaries.  The department requests that this be clarified             
 in this legislation in that they do not adopt a new payment for               
 land deficiency under this provision of this law.  Some language              
 they suggested was that it could be up to 50,000 acres.  This would           
 mean that the department wouldn't be required to give them 50,000             
 acres if they didn't have it.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2449                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN stated that in the interest of acquiring additional             
 information regarding this legislation, the bill would be held                
 over.                                                                         
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-20, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN requested the current status of municipalities that             
 have already taken care of their entitlements and other pertinent             
 information regarding this proposed legislation.  He said he                  
 doesn't want to add another layer to this already existing system.            
 He appointed Representative Ryan as a subcommittee chair to look at           
 this bill, do some work on it and bring it back before the full               
 committee.  He also appointed Representatives Joule and Ogan to the           
 subcommittee.                                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN requested that the department provide the                 
 committee with overlay maps to get a fair idea of what the state's            
 ownership is, the intended ownership, conveyances of the federal              
 government, et cetera.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 058                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. ANVIK said she would be happy to provide these maps.                      
                                                                               
 SB 9 - CAP PROJ MATCHING GRANT FOR INDIAN RESERV                              
                                                                               
 Number 070                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN indicated that the committee would consider SB 9, "An           
 Act relating to municipal capital project matching grants for a               
 municipality organized under federal law as an Indian reserve; and            
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
 Number 084                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR JERRY MACKIE, sponsor of SB 9, came forward to explain the            
 legislation.  He stated that SB 9 is a follow-up piece of                     
 legislation from last year which passed the House unanimously.  It            
 went through the committee process in the Senate, but it was one of           
 many bills that got lost last minute when they debated the budget             
 and ended up in special session.  The legislation had no opposition           
 last year and doesn't this year.                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR MACKIE continued that this was a straight forward and                 
 simple bill.  When the Hickel Administration instituted the Capitol           
 Matching Grant Program, it was set up with a definition that                  
 participants had to be municipalities.  A municipality would                  
 receive a municipal cap under the matching grant.  If a community             
 is unincorporated, they would receive an unincorporated one.                  
                                                                               
 Number 118                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MACKIE said that there was every intention for Metlakatla             
 to be included in this program and they did receive grants until              
 last year.  Senator Halford chaired the Finance Committee last year           
 and he thought, through a legal analysis, the definition of                   
 "municipality" did not include Metlakatla since that community is             
 not defined as a municipality, but as the Metlakatla Indian                   
 Reservation, organized under federal law.  This bill adds into                
 statute that Metlakatla would qualify for a municipal capital                 
 matching grant.  This legislation doesn't allow them to receive an            
 unincorporated grant which, because of their status, they actually,           
 for a few years, qualified for both a municipal grant and an                  
 unincorporated grant.                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR MACKIE stated that one of the questions which came up last            
 year in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee related            
 to the insertion of "community organized as an Indian reserve."  It           
 was asked what this meant in regards to Indian country.  He said,             
 "This legislation does not because this only allows for a                     
 specifically -- on page 1 of the bill, `an entity organized under             
 federal law as an Indian reserve that existed before enactment of             
 43 U.S.C. 1618(a) and is continued in existence under that                    
 subsection is a municipality for purposes....'"  Senator Mackie               
 said there is only one that qualifies under this and that is                  
 Metlakatla and it doesn't open up Pandora's box.                              
                                                                               
 Number 207                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked what type of monies this would entail and           
 are they portioned among the several communities on any type of               
 equality basis.  He also asked how the grants are actually                    
 procured.                                                                     
                                                                               
 SENATOR MACKIE responded that this legislation allows Metlakatla to           
 be treated the same as every other municipality, in the state, of             
 the same size.  It's the Governor's Capital Matching Grant Program            
 where up to $25,000 is awarded to these communities.  The                     
 legislation would allow Metlakatla to participate in this program             
 without any preference given.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 239                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN noted that the committee heard the bill last year.              
 He said he thought it was a good bill and he wanted to see it move            
 forward.                                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN moved and asked unanimous consent to move SB 9            
 out of committee with individual recommendations and with the                 
 accompanying zero fiscal note.  Hearing no objection, SB 9 was                
 moved out the House Community and Regional Affairs Standing                   
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 270                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN IVAN adjourned the House Community and Regional Affairs              
 Committee at 8:58 a.m.                                                        
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects